Apple's AI, iPhones, and all the highlights from WWDC 2024 | The Vergecast (2024)

• Post published:11/06/2024
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[Music] hello and welcome to rcast the flagship podcast of stateless computation on personal data with enforceable guarantees nailed it I got it David pointed out that you can pick any phrase from Apple’s white paper about privacy and Ai and we’re the flagship podcast of that I picked leaky user data earlier but we don’t want to get the explicit label on YouTube and Spotify yeah it’s a familyfriendly podcast stateless computation on personal data I’m your friend we’re here at wwc David Pierce is here hello we’re in this fancy house it’s awesome it is a very fancy house Alex cray is here I love that it smells like tacos in here that’s our fault yeah it’s delicious it’s fully our fault a lot of vergecast fans have wanted us to talk about the tacos and we will if you get through the entire episode including the ad breaks later on Alison Johnson will be joining us we are at WWDC Apple announced updates to every single one of its operating systems no Hardware as was rumored and I think the most important set of announcements Apple intelligence which is the company’s approach to AI which has many many many components including all the way at the end little little chat GPT 40 yeah just a little there it is just shut up all street is pretty much what it was yeah you want us to have a chat GPT strategy here it is it’s just chat GP so daveid and I walking around the event we’re walking in Apple Park the vibe was very much like what is GPT doing here like they were excited about it they were talking about it but they were kept on talking about all the stuff they had built yeah uh in the keynote their principles for how to build it how they’re going to protect user privacy there was a second on the record event uh where I Justine interviewed John Jee Andrea who’s their head of AI and Craig federi they recapitulated the keynote and said the principles and values again and then they kept being and then some people are going to want to use chat GBC right and it was just like I think all the leadup was about are they going to pick Google are they going to pick open AI there behind they got to catch up these models will power the stuff and David I it just felt like they could have done without it well there was the Assumption going in that if they were going to sign a deal like this it was going to be to sort of underpin all of this stuff right that like in the sense that when you go to Safari and you do a search you get Google right you don’t get like a mish mash of Apple and Google when it’s useful like it’s just Google because that’s the one that Apple picked and also billions of dollars is fun but the Assumption then was like okay this will be a Siri based on Gemini Apple doesn’t have the technology yet Apple hasn’t been able to compete with open Ai and others so they’re going to build on top of this infrastructure which as we’ve talked about has all kinds of like weird privacy implications but in a certain way kind of makes sense instead it’s just like a weird thing off to the side where Apple made a huge deal out of all the stuff that it has built it says it can do a ton it’s built this incredibly vertically integrated system that it says preserves your privacy and knows what’s on the screen and then like you said said oh and also chat GPT and so it’s it feels like just a an afterthought because it’s a really good brand that people know it it does actually feel like the Google thing because it’s in that it’s only being used for search right like that that was that was my it’s not even being used for search in that way it’s it would be like if you only took Google Images everything else was Apple except Google images and you and so if you do a search for a picture you get Google and everything else is Apple and You’ be like what this doesn’t make any sense because the integration is like you just you ask and then if it decides that it doesn’t want to do it and it wants chat jpt to do it well no so we should step through it so the big headline feature we should talk about is Apple intelligence yep the way the keynot was structured was to put all of that stuff at the end it was the grand finale of it was the onec ne turned to me at one point during the live blog as they they hit like a wrap-up moment before they did the intelligence stuff and the just turns me goes is that it yeah like are we they ran through all the os’s yeah which we’ll get to later but they ran through all the os’s here’s the new grid of icons on the home screen look you can put the icons everywhere here’s tvos we didn’t do anything uh and then they they came to like a natural wup point and then Tim Co came back and his like power of generative intelligence blah blah blah here’s all the stuff we’re doing and they laid out a bunch of principles it has to be powerful it has to be useful it has to be private they’ve built this extraordinarily complicated system where your device decides whether it can do some of the things that you might want it to do or it has to go to Apple’s private Cloud compute nodes which we should definitely talk about lots of privacy claims there and then it’s not and then it goes to chat GPT okay it’s that that’s Apple intelligence and the Heart of almost all these announcements are like here’s some stuff you can do on your phone or your Mac here’s some stuff that we built this very complicated system to do in the cloud securely and then also uh there’s a button here where if you want to take a picture of your fridge and ask it to make up a recipe you can send a photo to chat GPT if you’d like also we’re going to ask you if you ever want to do that and every time you do it we’re going to say do you want to send this photo to chat gbt so there’s no there’s almost no integration oh that is like yeah that’s the opposite I had not thought about this until just now I think that’s on purpose I think that’s like extremely on purpose yeah because what apple is trying to do is like abstract all of the aess away right that like you as a user shouldn’t have to care or notice what’s going to the cloud and what’s happening on device they want it all be secure it should all work the same like fine uh Apple wants it to be damn clear when you are using chat GPT because chat GPT is going to make mistakes it’s going to do a lot of weird stuff and apple would very much like to be like hey remember when you hit a button that said chat GPT like this is no longer our problem even the prompt is like sometimes we’ll make error yeah at the bottom of every result it says check important info brutal which is just chat gb’s reputation now this thing lies to you it’s even that’s even crer than like Chach BT’s typical thing which is just like sometimes it makes mistakes check this right so but there’s a real line there and that’s what I’m saying it felt like the vibe was we did all this stuff also this is here so don’t ask us about it right like yeah they said Craig federi at the I don’t even know what you call this it was an interview um uh he said that Gemini would be an example of another uh llm they could bring into this and he said there will be others uh we heard people talk about like what if you’re a doctor and there’s a medical AI system that you want to plug into your Mac in this way the hooks are being built so you’ll have multiple models you can pick from so chat gbt is just the one they’re starting with today because I kept saying it’s the market leader they think it’s the best one of these things they can integrate in all these places over time it’s obvious that Apple intelligence this much more private system is going to get better and maybe push one out or there’s going to be like competition and you get to pick whatever model you want so is it effectively just advertisem*nt for the API then I think I suspect I do not know that apple is paying open AI to have this built into their operating systems I don’t know how they’re getting paid I don’t if it’s per use I don’t if it’s a bulk rate whatever um I know that open AI doesn’t make any money famously they have not yet made any money uh Microsoft owns 49% of openi it would be very funny if Microsoft was putting money into open aai and openai was paying Apple for the privilege of being an Apple’s operator like that would be almost backwards um so that you know the The Logical assumption is that apple is paying to have this be part of their operating system and maybe they will pay other companies over time or there’ll be some other kind of arrangement you can have you can log in if you have a subscribe to chat GPT you can log into your account you get more features it will remember you for example um whereas if you don’t have a chat GPD account you’re not paying for premium uh it doesn’t remember anything about you it’s free uh it’s free to use on your iPhone uh it has no memory and and it throws everything out value so they have built this like very firewalled version of chat GPT that’s just around yeah but all of the action is Apple intelligence which is totally controlled by Apple that makes aund like that just makes sense Apple was never going to let anybody that tightly integrated into these are not the rumors right no well and it also makes the chat GPT piece of it make less sense to me right because if if open AI is paying Apple that I understand right like I get that for open AI they say okay this is going to make people use our product more which is going to make more people subscribe that’s that’s the path we get user data whatever but open AI in the way that it’s set up now seems to be getting most of the upside and all Apple gets is just like a weird way to offload you to another system for some questions that you have it’s very much like to do the good fun stuff it has to be not private and that’s Sam alman’s problem we’re going we’re going to have this so the the archit the RIS then is that if if it’s if you don’t have that all you get is kind of a like not fully baked AI system that people don’t use and so you’re sort of lost from the beginning yeah and I think one of the really interesting pieces of the puzzle here is we don’t know how much of these features will arrive with iOS 18 at the beginning we don’t know how many are coming towards the end every time they talked about Siri um I kept noticing that they they insisted used like off in the distance verb tenses Yeah Siri is going to be able to do this and it’s like when is Siri going to be able to do this the answer appears to be within the window of iOS 18 so Siri will be able to do a bunch of the stuff they demoed before iOS 19 comes out but not necessarily a long time from now yeah yeah like that’s that’s September 2025 is the release date of iOS 19 so there’s a long way to go uh before they have to ship all these features but the fundamental architecture of Apple intelligence is really interesting because they have they are claiming very much that the on device intelligence that they’ve built they said there are already 200 models running your phone before we ever do any of this generative stuff for things like car crash detection and photo editing and all photos in General on an iPhone tons of AI and they’re now they’re adding some of these other models it’s only going to run on the i iPhone 15 Pro and presumably the next one and then Max with an M1 chip or above so that’s interesting because the M1 I think is more similar to some of the previous i iPhone chips but they are gating it uh so it’s the 15 Pro and above and M1 and above obviously running the new versions operating system and it’s going to add more models that let you do more stuff on the phone so you will be able to generate horrifying uh images on the phone based on what’s happening in your photos um you’ll be able to ask Siri for certain things using App intents which we talked about a bunch last week but it’s only using the data on your device right only using the data on your device which is why all of the images from the image playground that we saw in the keynote were horrible they were so bad they were like it was like do you remember how when you’re when you’re download an app and it’s like do you want to download any of these other games that you’ve never heard of and are probably going to steal your data they it like all the art looked like those apps yeah that’s image playground which is all local uh and yeah it looks bad it looks real bad but image playground is a thing you can just integrate into apps now so you can draw sketch and notes and circle it and then it’ll make the AI bubble and it turn your sketch into a thing is that anything like I’m sort of serious like I think I have been I have been thinking about this so much the last few weeks about like how what in AI is a real thing that people will do and what is going to be a tech demo that no one in the world ever actually does and I’ve been thinking about this actually ever since rabbit did the demo where he drew a spreadsheet on a piece of paper and then pointed his rabbit to it and was like transpose the rows and columns and send this to my email and it did it and it was like oh neat unusable feature for anyone who exists in the world like why on Earth would you do this and I wonder with this thing where he’s like there was a moment in the keynote where he was in notes and he just did a circle in a note in an open part of the note and it made a picture of the stuff that was in his note it’s like hey technically neat thing it made a thing why what is this for know I figured it out it’s when you know how when you have to send a deck and you don’t want to go look for art to send that deck to like all your other co-workers to be like this is why we’re going to do this new policy or whatever okay that’s actually that’s you really tell that Alex used to be the managing end yeah she had to explain a lot of I I think I don’t make enough decks to like be Steward of the world I need to make more decks yeah you make me an installer deck you an enti but there’s other stuff that will happen locally on the film like um the new iOS you get uh AI powered summaries of your notifications and they previewed this with a very like like the stock thing that everyone previews everything with which is like your friends are planning a trip in a group text and it’s like so and so booked a house and the first date is this and so and so is going to be late I’m like none of my friends are this transactional they do not communicate this way it’s going to be like your law school friends are posting again some of these images are not safe for work right and it’s like what will we have do with this so like there’s a real I think just gap between sort of these demos like these ideas of what you can do on the phone the reality of how powerful your phone might have to be and then like what actually is happening on people’s phones and then at some point and we don’t really know when the phone’s going to say I don’t have the horsepower to do this or my battery life will be too compromised or The Thermals are out of whack and it will create a secure connection to Apple’s secure private compute cloud service that is running Apple silicon somewhere and that whole mechanism is Apple’s Innovation like at the end of the day Apple running a bunch of tiny models on device and a bunch of bigger models in the cloud is what everyone is doing yep some of the user experiences they are delivering are exactly the same ones as we’ve seen demoed by other companies Apple’s much better at telling you a compelling story about those user interface ideas but it’s the same stuff we’re going to read all your email and make you a list of flights like yeah we saw that at iio right that’s Microsoft is demoing but the the big innovation is they’re saying we’re doing this all on your device as much as we can and when we have to go up to the cloud we’ve built this whole system to keep that secure and then importantly throw your data away on the cloud when we’re done so there’s no chance of being compromised right that whole chain is supposed to be exactly as secure as just doing it on your device yeah which just instinctively I don’t believe because that’s not a thing you’ve just you’ve taken a thing that was on my device and you’ve put it somewhere else and so now by definition is less secure but at least to Apple’s credit it does seem like it has done just about everything you can do to mitigate that yeah it’s kind to like it seems to be just as secure as possible with still ackn but refusing to acknowledge that it is still way less secure than everything just being on your device right because it’s like yeah this is probably one of the most secure ways you can transfer this information you are still transferring this information and that means you open yourself up to other people inserting themselves in right and there’s all kinds of potential for weirdness if you have network problems or again like it turns out sending a bunch of data to the web and the cloud is also taxing on your battery life and thermals like this stuff is hard and I think doing all of this super seamlessly if Apple can pull it off it’s going to be like the true magic trick of this whole system yeah so the basics are complicated they just released a white paper about how it all works it is very dry oh my God Alex I believe your read on it was they don’t want people to read this no you sure don’t um but there are some interesting pieces of it right um Craig federi described one part of the system is blockchain is which is actually a great description uh so your phone when it goes to talk to one of these servers if they have not published the code for researchers to verify the security of the code to an append only cryptographically signed database blockchain is that your phone can check it just won’t talk to that server right so like your your man in the- Middle attack there like they’re trying to cut that down uh there’s a line in the white paper that says we do not want there to be Target ability so uh it’s not like you have a Mac Mini in the cloud yeah uh there’s a huge array of devices in the cloud and they don’t want any one of those to be associated with you so your device when it asks for a server to run some of these workloads on it actually will only ever get a group and it won’t know which one is in the end and then that load balancer is also like hardened so like you can’t attack it so no no like attacker can be like okay they always get that one and it’s not sending all the data in plain text but it’s not storing a database of everything you’ve ever done on your computer in plain text Windows recall although Microsoft did say they were going to fix it um uh this like there just a bunch of stuff like that one of the more interesting pieces these servers run a custom operating system that Apple says in the white paper is a combination of Mac OS and iOS um that is designed just for inference loads they’ve cut down all the other attack surfaces and then the the hardware itself in addition to all their usual like security measur meur es uh they have additional layers of security when they make the hardware ship it to the data center and validate it for installation and also there’s a large man with a gun just standing next to each one just in case uh well I I think some of that stuff is in this white paper they talk about it it’s in this SWOG post because if you recall there was a huge Bloomberg story about Apple’s data centers being attacked at the supply chain level and I think they’re like yeah we’re not that’s not even a possibility here yeah so they’re they’re saying all of these things about how the system will work I think the most important thing they’re saying is we want researchers to come in and validate this stuff over and over and over again yeah the firmware for these devices they’re going to publish it in plain text like look at it um so I think there’s this level of we want we want to take the pressure on the system at the same time the pressure is not necessarily technical the pressure is legal and political like the Chinese government doesn’t give a they’re just going to say if you want to keep selling iPhones in China you’re going to have to let us see everything right what are you going to do about that the Indian government is probably not going to give a like they just want to see things they just had some elections it’s a little softened over there but like who knows right like that’s the pressure around the world our FBI here in the United States has repeatedly tried to pressure Apple into turning over encryption keys to iMessage and iCloud this is a new Vector of attack to say okay you’re moving personal device off of people people’s phones into the cloud there is something called the third party Doctrine in this country that says if you anything touches your Telecom provider or cloud service you no longer have a reasonable expectation of privacy because a third party has seen it and now the government can see it too Apple’s answer to this is we’re going to throw it all way as soon as we’re done processing in the cloud and we send you a result back and so we don’t even have it to turn it over but the pressure is going to keep coming so it’s interesting that the technical side they’ve tried to button it up as much as they can the legal and political side they they want to keep selling phones in China yeah they’re it’s just a big we’ll see yeah it’s like we’re we’re just going to see how but also that problem that problem doesn’t cease to exist even if you don’t have this system for Apple right like this is just this is just the price of doing business in apples or in China so fundamentally like apple made that decision a very long time ago and this is just another version of that same decision what it seems like here is Apple is trying to give itself and out for the rest of the world’s versions of those legal and political problems where it can just be like sorry we don’t we don’t have it to give you like I don’t know what you want right they they sort of engineered a technical solution to a legal problem right well this is the thing you hear a lot now from people who are building web services is like the main thing you should do is make sure you don’t have one shred of data that you don’t absolutely need uh because if you accidentally store a bunch of people’s credit card numbers somebody’s going to hack it and they’re going to get it and that’s going to suck real bad for you uh if you have a bunch of people’s email addresses and passwords for accounts that don’t really matter to you same thing’s going to happen like all this stuff and so these data minimization practices are not just like good for the world even though I think they are but it’s just good business practice and so it’s like for Apple if they’re sincerely not turning around and training more models on that data or selling that data both of which they say they’re not and I think I believe them uh keeping that data is just a liability yeah and so it’s actually it’s smart for so many reasons to be like the minute you’re done with it it’s just shredded and gone we can’t get back if you want it Apple’s idea is that everything will eventually be on the phone the processor will be fast enough that they don’t have to send anything to the cloud right yeah yeah I I I think very clearly Apple’s goal is to do more and more on device over time uh I disagree really yeah uh but not in like a meaningful way uh I just I think when you say Apple’s goal is to get it all on your phone I think I think it’s gone the hes left the station it’s been a long day um horses you keep horses in station right and yeah yeah horse has left the barn station um train has left the iPhone workload has left your phone uh and I think what’s going to happen is the phone will get more and more powerful it’ll take more workloads onto the phone sure but then you’re going to invent more stuff you want to do and now you’ve built this incredibly powerful secure Cloud blah blah blah and you’re going to do all the stuff you there will always be some level of stuff you can’t do on a phone that now you can do up there I think both of those things can be simultaneously true right like the the private Cloud Compu is how you get rid of chat GPT and like ultimately at some point if we go far enough down this road open Ai and apple will be naked competitors in this space like that’s just where we’re headed and that’s how you get rid of chat GPT needing to do all this stuff right I think every time Apple sends something out of apple intelligence and into chat GPT that is going to look like failure to Apple for a whole variety of reasons uh but it’s still true I think that as the set of workloads gets larger apple is going to want to do more and more of them on your device because it’s going to save them Computing Apple talked a bunch about the environmental impact of all of this stuff and they make a big deal about the fact that the more you can do on your device the less they have to send anywhere which is computationally expensive cost electricity like it’s just more efficient to do it on the device so I think the push to do that stuff locally is going to be real it probably won’t ever be the whole answer though I think you’re right like and the bleeding edge stuff can happen in the compute Cloud so that it doesn’t have to happen in Azure which is a bummer if you’re Apple I mean that’s what that’s kind of what I’m getting it’s I I disagree with you but not in like some huge sense I just think there will always be some set of ideas that is too big for the phone yeah and once you’ve opened the door to Apple saying we’ve built a system that allows us to take some stuff away from your phone and up into the cloud which they’re very proud of that all of their data centers run on 100% renewable energy and apple silicon is already high per performance per watt and like they can do all this stuff where maybe they can solve some of those efficiency problems right like yeah Fair yeah there’s just going to be some set of stuff they can do in the cloud so like I this is like this is today is the change in like a year from now or two years from now it’ll just be part of the way the iPhone works is you have access to private compute Cloud that no dumb Android right whereas like with Android you got to send everything to Google which is like training on your emails like whatever thing Apple’s going to say so I just think this is the beginning of a change and that’s really how they framed it all day long yeah was this is the beginning of a change like this is the next generation of these devices this is the next generation of how we use these apps David at one point uh said you can you can squint and you can see the end of the app era here and the way that they’re talking about Siri there’s just excitement in a way that I would for example contrast with the Vision Pro yes which received 45 seconds of like now you can look at your keyboard in immersive mode um Ultra wide displays thank you uh but you know the way the way they talked about that product four months ago was like we have to pretend this is the thing and the way they talked about Apple intelligence today was like this is the thing that changes your experience with this phone forever what is the cool stuff here because I I mean I I obviously see there or wasn’t there I watched it here at this beautiful house the image playground I was really excited about but I can just like do that right now with most online image generators what are the other like at higher quality yeah yeah right they will look better my my ship post will be infinitely better um with something else what what is cool like we got chat GPT integration we got image playground we got jjis which is like make your own emojis that’s cool that rules what’s the other AI stuff like what is this for oh the the math notes where It’ll like calculate the math I think that’s s in everything I don’t think I that’s like AI but it’s the old it’s the old AI this is I mean this is the weirdest thing about all of the Apple intelligence stuff is like you and I kept accidentally disagree with each other in the live blog which I really enjoyed you kept saying so weird we’re 45 minutes in and there’s been no Ai and I kept saying all they’re talking about is AI because like every single one of these features it’s just AI underneath it’s not the AI they’re talking about and there is this like long spectrum of what is just software and what is AI and what is like new and it’s it’s all sort of compressing together fuzzy as ai’s definition is yeah for sure but like the the everything on the iPad pure and they didn’t talk about it as a at all they in pulled it out of the thing where they talked about a and talked about it separately but I think all the intelligence stuff to me felt like a sort of developer demo in a very real way right like this is a developer conference and I think it it made me think of the Vision Pro thing actually because to some extent like what apple is doing with all this is saying look we built a bunch of really cool technology here it is please go do something interesting with it and so so far the Vision Pro not so much we’ll get to that later but I I was kind of struck by the same thing of like this is a lot of talk about the logistics of a compute cloud and not a lot of talk about features that people can use and there’s a bunch of Siri stuff and I think we we can talk about what’s coming to Siri uh but this idea I think especially of the sort of Siri app intents thing where you can talk to your phone and it can do stuff on your device for you that’s the whole thing yeah and and I feel like apple didn’t weirdly sort of connect those dots today because they have this big idea of what Apple intelligence can be they have to convince everybody that this is going to be humongous and like the size of you know the iPhone as an industry that’s how you keep growing if you’re Apple this whole thing I just could not stop thinking was like apple Executives talking to investors like in a very real way was them being like please we we have a growth plan we’re going to be so successful don’t let us be the third most valuable company anymore like give it back to us well I’ll just give you the the clearest the clearest evidence for this that I can offer you the keynote ended and we did not go to look at any demos yeah we went to we we had lunch yeah how was it was fine I I I eat the I eat the corporate food with an immense amount of guilt uh so it it was fine it was you know they have a good chef at Cafe Max whatever but um but there were no there was not like a thing where we like ran around playing with a bunch of AI stuff afterwards uh and I even think to some extent the open a partnership is so that no one is comparing Apple to open AI oh 100 like I think the AI open AI part part ship is almost exclusively for investors rather than actual people well see we have to get the stuff and like B uh Craig said any place you see a blinking text cursor is a place where you can use this integration yeah in the system that’s pretty interesting well a lot of it also felt like very windowsyoutube it’s like genuinely insane to me how similar everybody is doing AI like God help me if one more company is like we have an idea for how to summarize your emails so you can read through them faster like I’m good we have solved that problem that I don’t think was a real problem you see the fake email that they made nicer it was actually very good was it we should get the screen cap of this from the keynote but they’re like you know sometimes you write an email at work and it’s a little too spicy you need to make it nicer and then there’s like they flashed up a meat email and it was like guys we have to stop doing this and you’re like oh that’s that’s how Craig emails I must insist that you like blah blah blah and they made it nicer and it was like gentlemen I must once again ask that you stop it up is it Jeff Bezos who was famous for forwarding customer emails to people with just a question mark it’s very good I’m imagining now you take that highlight the question mark and you’re like make this nice and it’s just like hello everyone I received this email from a customer can you there’s a real part of this to you point about features and only the ideas they are playing a little bit of ketchup right like Microsoft’s been out there making Google dance this whole time like it’s hard to demo features and say like we made it more personal until you get to Siri and all the stuff they think Siri can do which is you just ask Siri what time do I have to leave to get my daughter’s dance recal this is the example they used 50 times and then Siri has to know that you have a daughter and where she is and where that dance recital is what your schedule is uh I think fed you point out like it has to know if you like using Uber or lift like you just you go down the list of things you do on your phone and you need all what they call personal context to make it work and right now none of the other compute models we’ve seen pull this off maybe Google will get there on Android they’re less good at making the people who work at Google talk to each other than but those are the only two companies that even can there’s only companies come close and like Google to some extent was trying to show these ideas right in a less sort of like focused way Apple was straight up like here’s what you’re gonna do you’re gonna pick up Siri you’re gonna say I gotta get to this dance recital make it happen and Siri is gonna run off and tie into all the app intents on your phone it’s going to book a thing it’s going to move a meeting it’s going to call a day and you’re G to get in the car you’re look at the dance recital you’re going to say edit me a video was a fishing trip that was the demo like I went fishing make me a video of This fishing trip of my son learning to fish and Siri is just going to talk to whatever video editing app is on your phone that you’ve chosen it’s going to like read all the videos for you it’s going to make a thing it’s going to pick a song about fishing from Apple music here you go Bob’s your uncle you’re all done right and like this thing those are the features they need a bunch of developers to expose all the hooks so Siri can actually do it I think it is very interesting that they’re going to app intense they’re not doing the the stuff that we thought they might do which is like screen reading your phone and clicking around for you I think everyone has realized like that idea sounds great but is ultimately not trustworthy I think it would also break Apple’s relationships with its developers it’s also unnecessary if you have a gigantic developer ecosystem of people who are very happy to build stuff for your platform but that means they have to be happy to build stuff for this which is super debatable right now I feel like yeah because this would also your your example that means okay I’m not checking Outlook to to find the email for when the recital is I’m not checking Outlook to move this you can tell I use Outlook to use to to move my calendar around I’m not going to U into the Uber app myself or The Lift app it’s going to Auto choose all of that like that suddenly that’s lost revenue for a lot of different people just to make my experience UB is like all right when do I upsell you to Uber Plus or whatever sense what this means is uh the subscription economy in apps goes through the roof because all of a sudden I just need you to sign up for my thing right like if I’m Uber I don’t actually care if you’re in the Uber app for the most part as long as you’re using Uber because I make money when you use Uber so actually making it easy for you to use Uber benefit fits me to some extent right whereas if I run Yelp and I’m an ad-based system uh I have exactly zero incentive to be part of this because all I’m doing is giving you the information that you want without you having to come look at my ads so like the end of this is and I think this is true with a lot of AI is you look at a lot fewer things but you pay a lot more subscriptions yeah and that don’t know how I feel about that I I can say I hate that I don’t want to spend more money yeah yeah but they did say they will have something called onscreen awareness which is they will know the state of your phone as you’re using it they will like help you again this is Google a million years ago we have an entire feature about Google Now from like 10 years ago um like these ideas have been floating around for a while and I think it’s been very hard for apple to make them seem new in this context because we just came we in developer conferen SE and this is the end of it and the same ideas have been D over and over again the one that struck me is particularly interesting uh is Type to Siri cuz kept saying it’s you know chat Bots are not this we actually keep people safe by not letting them just do chatbot stuff that’s how you break this stuff and find its weaknesses and make it do evil stuff also you can now type to Siri yeah and it’s like first of all they should have had type to Siri from the very beginning of Siri I think Paul Miller on this show is like it is a crime that you can’t just like type Siri a command that you have to talk to it yeah it’s like an accessibility nightmare yeah but this it does exist but you have to pick which is ridiculous yeah I will just remind everybody that Siri launched like the year the Virg launched like that’s how old this thing is like who do you think has done better we are told that it’s like a billion and a half request of Siri a day just slightly behind the Birch yeah people command us to do set timers all day long the Birch cast hotline is just like five minutes um but they should have had it from all along now they do so you can type to Siri whether that feels like a chat bot to people or just commands who who knows yeah uh one of the coolest features by the way they added to airpods for Siri is now when it asks you if you want to do something you can just nod yes or Shake no I’m very excited about that uh very cool so they’re just kind of making Siri more natural and more like available to you and then increasing it set of capabilities none of that is coming in the betas of iOS that are going to be out nope that is just going to slowly increase over the course of now until the end of iOS 18 and then we’ll see what makes it what gets pushed to iOS 19 whatever but they’re basically saying like we’re starting now we’re we’re going Siri is going to become this thing that’s want it to be and and they’re severely limiting what phones it will work on right right and you know it’s unclear whether that’s because they want everybody to buy a new phone they probably want everybody to buy a new phone say you don’t think that’s clear I think that’s I think I need to like spend more time thinking about the the differences between the M1 and sort of like whatever the a series the iPhone the iPhone 15 Pro like there’s some stuff there that’s different but yeah they probably just won’t buy a new phone and you’re not going to get some like M1 one MacBook a owner to like in theory if this cloud computing thing works as well as Apple says you should actually be able to fail it pretty gracefully down and just do more and more in the cloud as you get to older and older phones well you want yeah you want the older phones with the older cell radios pushing more and more H yeah let’s go maybe the cell radios is it huh like maybe the cell radio is why yeah who knows or they just want to sell a bunch of phones I if you looks at last qu earnings they’re desperate for an upgrade cycle a mix but I do think this is an unusually developer dependent feature not only to plug into the intense but like one of the things Apple did a lot of today uh and we should get into like we have a lot of OSS to get to but they opened up a lot of new apis and things people can tap into and gave them access to new stuff that’s going on in the system and like they’re both giving users more stuff they can noodle around with but also developers feel like they’re getting way more access to like the underlying stuff happening on the device than they have in the past and I like if you’re apple and you want to like make things work across the device you have to do that but it also feels like this is Apple being like okay we are sort of throwing open the iPhone in a new way please come do cool things with it please we need it so bad please come which is like wild for them to be doing right now when probably their relationship with developers has never been more fraught yeah yeah I spent a lot of time trying to decide how big a deal I think that is because on the one hand where the hell are you going to go like what other moves do you have at this point and for Apple this is another chance to Shore that up because if this increases Apple’s market share it starts to fight against some of these other AI systems everybody who’s like oh open AI is going to break the Paradigm of the smartphone Apple can just sit here and be like gotcha we wa and come make apps for us again yeah your rabbit right right but at the same time it is it is true that there are a lot of developers who uh do not believe Apple has their best interest at heart right now especially if the point of the all the stuff is to obviate the app right like right uh I think I think like fundamentally it’s very interesting to look at Apple under a little bit of competitive pressure like where are you going to go is like that’s the Monopoly where are you going to go like we they have all the customers no one right now is like running off to buy an AI powered Surface Book federi again today said technically we’ve been shipping aipc since 2020 all right and some people want to call that a category now and it’s like they are feeling pressure it’s good yeah like it’s good for all of Technology when these companies are ferociously competitive and this stuff has made them ferociously competitive they all have the same idea it’s all the same stuff uh we make this email 10% nicer yeah um email summarization Wars baby let’s go there’s just a part of but there’s a part of this where at the end of it it’s just like I’m sending David a robot email it’s his robot summarizing it he’s sending me some weird mutant gen mhi in response it’s like what have we accomplished I I love how it’s just abstracting all communication like that’s all AI does now is it just abstracts everything we say yeah you’ll send the first email and then it’ll just be AI forever yeah and then something will end up in your calendar and that’ll be great some stuff that they did not announce which I was curious if they would they announced uh AI image removal in the background of photos but not anything beyond that right so basically smart eraser which like Google photos has had forever and Lightroom now has um that’s really interesting they’re going to add this to more their products but you could go even farther and be like you can just take people out of these photos and like they didn’t demo that right yeah so apple is clearly operating within some set of constraints uh they did a lot of safety checking around the their generative AI tool which again produces just like horrific cartoons I’m so excited it’s not nearly as photorealistic as the other stuff that we see on the market like meta AI tool is just like a weird spaghetti Jesus day and night right yeah um Apple can’t make anything of that quality cuz it’s running everything locally uh well it’s using all of like your images to train on it right no no no no there’s no it training how’s it training it just has a model it’s pre-trained model it’s running on your phone okay so pre-trained garbage model uh yeah and they were very clear actually David brought this up the Apple just like everybody else like yeah we we trained on the public web for it sex models yep just like yeah like you do and like Publishers could have opted out it’s like what Publishers like get to make sure Apple Bot isn’t scraping us maybe they were I everyone freak T about CH one person I don’t even know if we block it disclosure we have a robots file someone else is in charge of it um uh but like they said they trained their image model on a bunch of Apple owned images in order to maintain safety they selected the data they were training with they licensed a bunch of books and news archives and stuff so all that stuff is sitting on the on the phone which is why it’s as limited as it is it’s trained in your data I was really training training a model on even just the amount of photos in like a normal phone like your phone would explode yeah yeah also just horrible yeah I don’t want to I don’t want I don’t want to see anything it does there that that’s why that’s why you need to go from 35 to 3day Tops off um good comments on YouTube last week uh but like that last piece were like how will we keep it safe how will we keep it from doing the weird stuff the other models have done the weirdest part about this is on your own phone code running locally on the phone you purchased with the operating system you’re on there’s stuff Apple will not let you do in a way that right now Apple doesn’t sit between you and what you type into Pages it doesn’t sit between you and what you can record with a camera it doesn’t sit with between you and what you can edit in iMovie but you open image playground and you’re like make me some horrific stuff and Apple’s just going to say no because Apple doesn’t want to run into what every single other company runs into where it’s like oh no you did a racism but that so the difference is all that stuff is happening on a website controlled by a company on someone else’s server there’s a lot of precedent for you know once you’re using a cloud service other people get to say what you do with it there’s not a lot of precedent for you are running code locally on your computer if you can do it in Airplane Mode should there be any rules right and the one that I think of all the time I’ve asked a bunch of people about this the one that comes to M right now is Adobe Photoshop will not let you print out a dollar bill you scan a dollar into photosh and try to print it like no it’s a dollar we’re not going to let you do counterfeiting the government has asked us very politely to not enable counterfeiting and just like won’t do it okay like we’ve I think everyone has sort of like accepted over time yeah you know fine like don’t do counter fitting in Photoshop yeah but that’s very different than like what just reading the paper and what kind of apple tested on and what they’re trying to get rid of it’s like it’s just all the posting it’s it’s all the stuff like yeah sometimes you do want to send something absolutely horrible to yeah like I bet Photoshop will let you print out like a bunch of butts yeah yeah Photoshop will absolutely in fact Apple will not let I don’t know Firefly is ready for like make a bunch of butts but Firefly runs in the cloud right so we accepted this thing where it’s like you’re using someone else’s computer particularly for free uh and then say what it’s good or bad and we have some expectations about what they will allow you’re using your own computer there are no there we do not usually allow these things to have rules right you can make all the butts you want right if you pick an open source I mean that is the use case finally finally a way to sell Chromebooks at scale AI PC is from Microsoft all the butts you want uh but yeah if you take an open source model and like run it on some PC Today nothing’s stopping you right there’s not really a way to stop you unless I don’t know the chip makers prevented like that’s just not going to happen right like I’ve asked Lisa Sue this question I’ve asked qualcon this question uh they’re like yeah the government tells us not to a we don’t to it anyhow the point of this is I think people are going to get this they’re going to assume it’s their computer and the thing that it will not be is 100% of their computer anymore no it and I I kind find kind of find that a little gross I mean it’s it’s I think if if it was an just a straightup app if it wasn’t like integrated into a whole bunch of other apps I wouldn’t feel as gross about it if it was just like oh yeah that’s the Apple image generator app it won’t let you make butts I’d be like okay that’s fair but like okay if you want to make butts in any of these other tools I should be allowed to well I think we’re have our first test I’m so excited again the vibe at WC is like we know people are going to do weird stuff with our thing we’ll take it down when we need to they they very much know that the systems will hallucinate and there’s going to be some weird outcomes they’re just like ready for it yeah but it I just like and I think we should take a break and actually talk about all the os’s after this but like the one piece of this that like philosophically I’m thinking about is like this is the first time an operating system is going to be straight up up like no no we’re just not going to let you do it and Apple’s approach to it is like we are the ones generating it so we’re going to set the rules that’s just that feels weird to me it’s weird it’s going to be weird yeah I don’t like that and all the other ones are in the cloud so you can’t like roll up to Google and be like here’s what I want to do with your data center today I think I just want to say free the butts like we got to free we got to take a break so take a break we’ll be fine everybody think about what whatever you need to think about we free the Butts free the butts we’ll be right back all right we’re back with the vergecast the flagship podcast of leaky user data there we go I’m just gonna keep saying it it’s G Allison Johnson’s here welcome Alison all right outside of the AI stuff there was a ton of other news wwec Apple updated almost every single one of its operating systems I say almost because dbos received virtually no updates it got some it got the same updates Amazon has had for years but only in the Apple TV Plus app for Apple TV Originals perfect yeah call it’s the severance box now that’s just what that’s for it’s fine it’s the most expensive streamer on the market uh Dave you want to run us through all these or let’s do so I there are eight platforms I have here uh and I’m I’m defining platforms slightly more Loosely than Apple did uh and I have ordered them in what I would call rough order of my own particular interest in so I feel like the first one we should start with is uh iOS 18 yeah um we should start with the personalization right this is like the thing I was most excited about coming into this um and Alison I’m particularly curious how you feel as someone who uses all the phones and is someone who is like I feel like every single time I look over your shoulder you’re like moving things around on your home screen just in life just to add some chaos what did you make of all this yeah it’s uh I feel like it’s the next step you know with the lock screen customization we’ve gotten and home lock screen widget which I love and I don’t know if anybody else uses but yeah just a few more options I’m pretty interested in the control center updates they’ve like kind of rejiggered it and now it’s like way more customizable you can like resize the tiles and you can move things around um and then that kind of feeds into the um lock screen where you can change the shortcuts the like what is it flashlight and Camera camera yeah flashlight bottom left camera bottom right right um which for some reason I have trouble hitting those things but you can change them and you can make them pretty much anything that’s in the control center options I think the halide folks are very excited because you can just put halide in right on like Lo screen yeah which is wild like do I want to blame this on EU regulatory pressure I would like to blame but it’s rules I think this like what everybody wants is to be able to reprogram a bunch of these buttons to different kind apps yeah it’s it’s I mean it’s something that Android’s been doing what since it started a long time say it is so funny watching Craig Figi stand on stage and be like look I have an app icon I can put it anywhere I want and it’s like oh my God Craig by the way I just want to point out you you can’t put no you can’t thank you it’s still a grid I compared it to Stage manager in the live blog and a bunch of people gave me for it and I’m right it’s stage manager it’s not like a free form can’t get to like desktop levels of crazy it’s a grid yeah and you can put some stuff on one side or the bottom honestly moving out of the grid and making you be like allowing you to put wherever you want would be good security for them because if you get somebody’s phone you’re like I don’t know where any of these apps are it’s just a pile A pile Oh God like they also announced what I I think should just be known as the grinder feature the the Ashley Madison if you will where you can have a folder full of hidden apps that are locked I was like oh what are those hidden apps oh if you’re married I know what those hidden apps are so sensitive information I’m going to be suspicious of all of y’all’s phones uhoh that’s where I put the the notes for things I’m going to buy my wife I just want her to know ahead of time you’re real swe a whole app just for that no but so I’m very excited about the the apps on the home screen thing like that rules just the thing where you can put a row of them on the side and nowhere else wonderful yeah like that’s where icons should go like if you’ve ever tried to use your phone in one hand it’s stupid that there are icons everywhere anyway uh the thing that I think is bad is the the color theming that apple is trying to do I’ve seen a bunch of screenshots of this so in theory you can like apps will be able to theme their own apps so you be their own icons so you be able to do lots of different things with it but you can also it seems like just brute force a color across the whole home screen every single screenshot I’ve seen of it from Dev so far looks like trash that’s because they haven’t done it right it’s got to be that really horrible green and you’ve got to have like the Matrix background on your phone and then it’s going to be sick I don’t believe that I don’t know if anyone has ever seen Cray’s slack theme unusable just an unusable it’s a beautiful security measure no one’s going to be like looking over my shoulder at slack they’re going be like n you know you have to look at it right like that’s that’s the no challenge yeah but you like you just harden yourself this explains a lot of why sometimes I’ll slack you and like eight days later like oh hey yeah I don’t like it but no I I thought I thought that was like both the dumbest thing and also my favorite thing cuz like if there’s the potential to make it look really pretty you could theoretically but every example they had on there was like horrible yeah like what Google has done with material U I think is is great and they’ve done a good job of making it match with backgrounds and that’s some of what apple is trying to do here it seems like but uh I don’t know it’s just like a weird Brute Force thing that I’m not into even the sample he did where he’s like it’s like the dog and there’s a bunch of tennis balls and he’s like yeah I can choose a color from here and immediately chose the tennis ball color so like that was like that was in the demo he made it look like garbage in the demo yeah you you just all of you underestimate the power of teens to theme their phones like yeah this is for some huge percentage of people this is the reason they have been jailbreaking their phones no no there’s going to be so many purple and pinks very very soon with like the comic F font yeah that’s going to be amazing I’m very excited for the the teenagers to ruin their phones but this is like table Stak stuff Apple has not had forever and now they’re like okay you can like customize your home screen even more and the reason they never had it before was because uh Steve Jobs and maybe only Steve Jobs had the the the conviction to say most of you have bad taste and I don’t want you to make my phone ugly and now they’re out of those guys yeah Jo Joanie left he’s gone yeah what’s he GNA do yeah he was like like and with him all good tastes went all the rest of the designer left they’re going to throw up some other design here’s this guy uh he made the fabric Band On The Vision Pro he thinks you have horrible taste I feel like every year for the past few years we’ve been allowed to make our phones a little bit uglier like we’re just given a little bit more and and we should be allowed to make them as ugly as possible if I want to my space let me it’s it’s it’s so obviously coming just give it I’m so excited um even even the control center stuff is really fascinating that there it now has Pages uh I think Ford CEO Jim Farley was out there posting on threads about how excited he is for the Ford pass integration with control center the Mak got like a little Cameo yeah on the phone you can super unlock your doors from control center now I think they even unlock the doors I think they just turned on the air conditioning in the car uh that was the demo during the keynote but the the integration has you can unlock the do from it’s just what everybody wanted was to not to use the for Pass App uh but it’s like even that is just it’s a little bit more just let anything happen here yeah like control center I think is a successful product for Apple I think so it does the thing that everybody wants it to do and now it’s just another surface to muddy up I did like well because Jen and I have talked about this a lot where we talk about the smart home stuff and smart home controls in the control center were pretty terrible they weren’t great um cuz they kept on um they move them around which is exactly what you don’t want to you be like I want to turn off my light oh cool you decided I never need to turn off my light because the the four that they do they Auto populate based on what you’ve used last hor so if you’re like I want to turn off this light you got to you end up all the way in the home app yeah whereas the light you turned on yesterday is like here I am ready to turn me on again no I never go in that room leave me alone yeah so so I think the fact that you can customize the home stuff more that that was like I was like okay cuz that gives me that’s like I think about how many swipes it takes me to like turn off a light in my house right yeah and right now it’s like okay I got to go into the home app I got to find the look for it if it’s not on that front page I got to go to the thing and now be like swipe swipe to the home section and soon you’ll able to just be like Siri dark I just to say there’s now like a lot of ways to do everything on your phone yes because to some extent your home screen now has widgets your lock screen now has widgets there’s still the weird old like today screen to the left of your home screen the you can put stuff in apps can long press on an app icon to do stuff you can now one cool thing that I saw you can long press on an app icon to turn it into a widget in place on the home screen which looks very cool it’s neat uh they like breezed through this stuff to get to the AI and there’s actually a lot of like little design details in iOS 18 that look really great uh the new settings for flashlight in the flashlight widget are awesome you can set the width of the beam of the flashlight it’s awesome they should have spent an hour on this that’s we like y I honestly believe like in any other year where Apple didn’t feel like it either had to or had an AI story to tell uh we would have spent like an hour talking about little tiny design details and there would have been long videos about like I just saw one thing on Twitter that now when you press the volume button the bezel indents slightly on the screen so you can see the button being pressed just this like tiny little affordance that it looks like it’s being pressed from the side oh that’s beautiful love it um but also I know I know what they’re doing with that you know what they’re doing with that we all know what they’re doing with that they’re getting ready to take the buttons away yeah that was my next thought oh that’s interesting I hate both of you for ushering that into existence oh no I mean the second I saw them be like the screen all dink I’m like oh I know what you’re doing don’t make my screen d uh but we we have buried the lead long enough we got RS RCS it’s RCS time um if you NE I screamed Len I I I did a welp I wish I had thought about it sooner um so at iio when they mention RCS like The Crowd Goes Wild like deer rips the shirt uh at the Apple event when they’re RCS shows up and he says it for one second and now RCS thing Dead Silence except for me and I believe Allison also cheered yeah when I realized you were I was like oh I can do a cheer uh I should have just screamed deer yeah just like that would have got in the lap other than that there was there were no sounds no sound no other sounds were made I bet you could hear you somewhere in the live stream if you if you do send it to us vergecast verge.com send us Nei screaming about RCS there’s a very famous uh bootleg of Jeff Tweety from woko playing Madison and it forced him to play the song gun by uncle tupo and like it goes out there and it’s just me going gun and he’s like really it’s out you can find it it’s it’s not illegal recording but I the RCs so we talked last week and we were debating like are how big a deal are they going to make out of RCs and I think where we landed if I’m not mistaken was it’ll be in the the bento box at the end that shows all the features but they won’t name it and I would say we almost got that he did say the letters RCS out loud on stage as the B box appeared yeah yeah right it was like a brief I was kind of like oh there’s RCS and then he said and now we have RCS and then just breezed past it dead silence did not like this they spent more time on the satellite messaging like you are in the woods you can now thumbs up emoji you know your friend and then we have RCS yeah and the fact that you can now do text formatting you can do like a that R break through is definitely not going to work over RCS I can tell you that with theync a bunch of features are iMessage only so that they could be like now we have RCS by the way SMS works with satellites but not RCS work with satellites but not RCS um I did think it was incredible that in 2024 we went to a keynote by the third richest company in the world uh state-of-the-art Computing company and they’re like you can underline this text and like you can also bold it and italicize it and people were like well there was a moment in Siri one where he was like now you can find documents and you’re like oh my God documents in the iPad where he’s like we’ve made file browsing easier it’s like dude this problem is super solved like you just refuse to solve it yeah um a lot of those moments where you just recontextualize old Solutions in new places like you can italicize text and messages yeah yeah I I understand why it’s just like really it’s the it’s the eye button it’s been in every word processor I’ve ever used the little slanty eye you can just push it do just anywhere you can do it on Twitter or you could yeah but you had to like it was like weird you to like think about it yeah well now I can do it in messages it’s very exting message also got any Emoji is now a tap back in in messages that actually think is very exciting people are super stoked about that M you can make your words Jitter and shake and exploit right the other do you guys use that stuff like do you I find I use the tap back all the time and that’s about the only kind of wacky iMessage feature I use consistently except the birthday balloons I love the birthday I rock the balloons every time I forget about them and I see them oh that was nice I always forget about them until I’m like oh congratulations oh I get fireal right I very excited about the ability to use any Emoji as a t pack yeah I that’s effectively it just you now you just have Emoji responses mhm which every other platform supports whereas being like haha just like this is too sarcastic yeah yeah right it’s like the I use the thumbs up and the the bang bang for way too many things I mean I use the haha when like I’m not truly engaged in conversation but I’m like oh but that was funny point it’s it’s it’s the you tried of emoji reaction I don’t have any more energy it makes you a dick whether or not you want to be one like it’s not so I’m very excited to expand the range uh blood tears is my favorite yeah oh you’re not going to be able to get custom emojis I think blood tear might be a custom emoji just in our slack instance if you want to know what it’s like working in a Verge often I reply with a picture of a smiley face crying blood it’s true it’s super useful it expresses so much about what we do here more than haha more than just way more than haha what if okay starting today haha means blood tears tell sheing tell we’re just going to make this a thing now yeah you see these words it means I’m crying blood I mean sometimes the jokes yeah that’s that is a feeling yeah yeah um all right let’s keep moving we got more platforms to do here uh you talk about game mode Y what in game mode there you just did that’s welcome to Game Mode you can now play 5-year-old video games poorly on your computer and there’s a new Assassin cre game whatever the new Assassin’s Creed’s coming we’re going to talk about Apple andon games from 2017 when you get to the Mac sorry game mode prioritizes W’s performance of controllers and your but okay there done great congratulations to all of your wireless controllers let’s move on the next platform and this is not technically a platform by Apple’s definition but I think we should talk about it is photos because photos is like a hugely used app and they announced a bunch of stuff including a giant redesign that I would argue is not a particularly giant redesign it’s just that they put a bunch of new uh albums in your photos app that I am suspicious of their usefulness MH but now they exist yeah it’s very like Memories forward like it seems like the actual photos you’re going to look for are just right up there with like remember this time and here was this thing that happened look at all your dead pets yeah yes really really enjoy them I just remember like there was years ago at an iPad event I think it was the iPad event they did in New York they put up this marketing image that was a guy sitting like in a in the crook of one of the supports on the Brooklyn Bridge doodling on his iPad sure and it’s like sure this is like a normal thing a person does on their device and every time Apple shows new photos features I think of that guy sitting on the Brooklyn Bridge because it’s like this thing where there is a whole album of just all your awesome pictures from yesterday it’s like no I don’t have any awesome pictures from yesterday like I have a bunch of accidental screenshots I have receipts from the plane and I have a picture of my toddler that is the same picture that I take of my toddler that’s blurry and weird every single day like I don’t need this apple and all of these things are made for like extremely interesting worldly beautiful people who take thousands of photos of themselves every day and I think none of those people exist in the actual World it makes me crazy they exist on Instagram all my on Instagram but they they try yeah right like most people are just using their phones to take photos but I do think the idea that the app is not memory forward is fast fting cuz it does imply you’re taking more photos and videos than ever and it’s hard to find them and the device should like sort them for you which I buy in theory like it’s good logic yeah I mean I don’t use Google photos as my camera role do you I mean like on my the photos app right and I think the sort of conflation of the photos app with the camera roll is like fighting and Apple’s goals here which is to compete with Google photos and other apps like Google photos and so it’s just like at some point I just need to see all the photos I took in a list um Google photos right now actually it’s most infuriating feature is it insists on stacking your photos for you oh I hate that and it’s like you took five of these frames it’s like yeah I know I would like to see all I would like to see them I don’t want you to pick one um and I think it gets weird when you think of the photos app as actually your camera role and not this like memory playground yeah well I wonder also how much of this is the fact that we all review devices do you mean like do most people take screenshots yes okay all the time on purpose all the time I take a lot of accidental screenshots that’s real but I also take a lot of I know people who have like 10,000 screenshots in their just like things conversations uh disappearing messages Snapchats like all the stuff like anything that happens on your phone the way the easiest fastest way to capture it a screenshot yeah so you can actually do some segmenting and making that stuff searchable and filterable from rest like there’s a lot of good intent in this app and I think the way it looks is like ever it’s even more complicated than it’s ever been before but I also think it is prettier than it’s ever been like if you think of where we started with I photos to now gorgeous app compared to I photos right sure yeah I care about that no I agree it has gotten a lot better and I think as a like management system it makes sense that this is kind of what they’re trying to do it just seems like this idea of we are going to constantly repackage your photos and shove them at you deal was like the wrong answer to me uh but I do think some of the stuff they’re doing like they I think said the exact same you can find your driver’s license or your license plate in your photos the like The Identical demo to Google which is just like this is everybody’s driver’s license is your driver’s license Okay Google’s was your license plate right right so you’re yeah it was what what is totally different features two phones in order to get all your information and then I’ll know everything about my the demo they are slightly different they were ever so slightly different Google was you just asked it you just like asked Google photos what my license plate number was and like told you the answer this one was you were in a web form and said enter your driver’s license number and like the Apple intelligence would go and get it and like enter it for you that’s cool slightly different demo sure same exact result which correct you filled out a meaningless number of form F welcome welcome to the AI future it’s just a bunch of weird UI OPP robots at the DMV until the DMV submit my taxes paid for this uh yeah it’s perfect um so that’s photos uh iPad which I think was a weird one in that it was both incredibly disappointing and also the single coolest demo of the day by a pretty wide margin I ended the iPad session of live by saying I’m sorry that was overwhelmingly what I felt at the end of that why did you think that was cool the math the math thing was awesome just the calculator just the single just in terms of like holy God this is cool technology just the thing where he’s writing down an equation in notes and he writes the equal sign and it just does it in his handwriting that ripped another one that I’m like does does this help anyone with anything in reality that exists I don’t know where they did the table tennis uh algebra and then he was like make a graph of velocities yeah distance over velocity doing stuff on Chromebooks now like it’s fine but it was awesome technology and yet I think and I’m curious if this was your just the calculator app listen it was awesome look they spent 14 years to make the best D people walked into this thinking iPads are were going to come out of wwc running Mac OS and you’re like the calculator app did a thing that is important to say is that the biggest cheer by a wide margin at this year’s WWDC was for the calculator app for iPad do with that what you will but it was not close people saw albra being done by a computer and they’re like finally yeah but I found this one so fascinating because it was like we got the new iPad Pro and the new iPads what like a month ago two months ago time a whatever uh everybody was like okay this is a device waiting for amazing software and like wwc is coming this is going to be the one and we just super duper didn’t get it like just not even a little bit at all and I don’t know if you guys Felt This Way being in there but the energy in the room was the lowest as he was describing like shareplay improvements on the iPad right when he got to we’ve added some UI improvements to the iPad and everyone thought it would be like a window system he it’s like floating tab bar and then he said the word morph five times Z just seamlessly morphs into the sidebar I don’t know if you’ve seen anything more famously the robot and Terminator 2 morphs the video for Michael Jackson’s black and white the first morphing ever done he turns into a tiger nothing about this hit on the level of Michael Jackson turning into a tiger in the video for black and white this was absolute zero zero response to this morphing it was it was Might Morphin Power Rangers I think emotional reactions from everybody in that room nothing on this hit the level of the White Ranger coming back you know what I’m saying an impossible bar impossible bar it’s nobody else I’m just surprised you know that much about I know morphing I grew up in a time of morphing these are core childhood memories morphing was very popular deal like a lot of late ’90s early 2000s culture really revolved around morphing saying the guy he said watch the tab bar seamlessly morphing to the sidebar I was like yeah it is baby morphing we should move on but I just want to say if you ever write like a sufian Stevens style album I grew up in a time of morphing is this title of your sing it’s just it was oddly prevalent alon’s with me she knows there yeah there was a lot of morphing there was morphing they were they were Mighty and they Power Rangers only only one verb in there yeah um all right let’s move on that’s enough for the iPad the iPad still disappointing now with a calculator uh I put watch OS next but it’s really a tie between wa can we say two things about the IAD there are two things one they announced the most important feature of all for anyone who has a parent with an iPad you can now uh take over their screen oh so when you’re FaceTiming with them you can share play and they’re like what am I doing you can draw on their screen to call their attention to something you want them to do or you can just do it that’s cool killer feature yeah that’s a good feature absolutely killer feature uh and then the weird dynamic handwriting font thing they’re doing smart script where you draw on it and it Smooths out your handwriting but then also sort of creates handwriting for you it’s clear whether this like a systemwide type face or it just has a model of your handwriting that you can now copy and paste you can paste you can copy text from somewhere else paste it into a document your handwriting could you do that on like a surface device five years ago yeah but now it’s on the iPad yeah it’s look they didn’t add Windows they added a morphing tab bar taskbar and uh you get smart they were like we’re going to set the bar real low it’s very low and then we’re going to go slight people thought they were going to run Max OS on their iPads coming out of this event they got smart script were not correct and David got a calculator you know what’s iric all the algebra you do at work this is actually this is a good segue into the next one let’s do Mac OS next because what we actually got is much closer to the exact opposite of getting Mac OS on your iPad we got iPhones on your Mac yes uh Mac OS seoa how do you feel about seoa is it’s like a name it’s fine it’s a name I I’ve I’ve live logged for like 10 years 15 years now and when Craig does the bit about the name I literally just like take a break crack my Knuckles I’m like you’re going to it’s a name it’s going to be a mountain yeah they did or didn’t get high it’s fine uh but yeah the big things we should talk about iPhone mirroring because this is one of those things that I think this is the big thing uh Apple probably didn’t expect to be as exciting to people as it was but it’s very exciting and I think is is like going to be a huge deal yeah I mean they’re they’re missing a key interface element you mean a digital Crown it took the world much it’s right up there it’s a click wheel digital Crown it’s the trackpad three most important devices um yeah they don’t have a touchcreen it’s like bananas I can mirror a phone on your Mac without a touchcreen um but I think the the basic idea that people want to use their phone there’s a bunch of apps on your phone that did not sign up for the Mac App Store when the Mac went to Apple silicon which they really thought would happen it did not happen yep how are you going to get the Instagram app on your Mac how you do Catalyst That was supposed to bring all that stuff across Catalyst was iPad apps being remapped into Mac apps but now you can just run iOS apps on Apple silicon Mac straight up no porting um the Bluetooth lights in the studio at my house have a horrible iPhone app and it’s the only it’s the only app that has ever I’ve been like I wonder if that’s here and it’s there cuz they don’t care Instagram is like no we’re not letting you do this Tik Tok is like we’re not letting you do this we’re not making you a Mac app you just mirror your iPhone uh and it’s just the most Brute Force like we’re just horse powering your this screen onto that screen solve the problem the app’s still running on the phone uh it’s very cool I think it will work I think people are going to use it all the time the coolest part uh I don’t know if you guys saw this the notifications get remapped that so your I notifications show up on your Mac and you Mac notifications there’s mac notifications and you click them and it’ll pop open the iPhone mirroring and drop you into the iPhone I mean I’m nervous about that I already don’t like how many notifications I get on my iPhone I’m like are they going to be on my computer now too yeah so like AP News loves to push a breaking notification for everything is that going to pop up on my my Mac well supposedly now thanks to the magic of AI all of your notifications are going to be sorted by priority which couldn’t possibly go wrong or be gamed by any systems because Apple has historically done such a good job of managing notifications back like that’s that’s all you got to do no they sh locked the hell out of grounds I know they sh locked it but like they didn’t make anything better they that’s not what you do when you use your dominant Monopoly to kill your competition it’s not the choice you’re making but I am I am excited about like the the iPhone thing just because I’ll be able to never have to get off my couch again when I need to like log into something that needs two Factor authentication that’s why you get an Apple Watch oh that’s a good one you all think the Apple watch is a health and fitness device I think of this is a two-factor dongle does it have like shames me from does it have the authenticators on it oh yeah do I use I use OCTA verify and ay on it thanks to you actually because you have been prizing this for years we don’t use any of those Services we use other ones this was not a security hole I don’t have any of those on my watch we use the new Apple password downloading right now this is a two-factor dongle that will occasionally shame you for not standing up and it’s fine it works um but I but that thing where they added more iPhone to the Mac deep deeply funny oh yeah uh they also uh we talked a lot about Siri in the AI section they changed the way Siri looks and works on the Mac to make it more powerful to give it more of these text inputs but like it’s they didn’t change much the big other feature that got a lot of Cheers the Mac section was automatic window tiling which uh Windows has had for 100 years I have used it so much on Windows and I have an app on my computer that I like when they announced it I was like but I thought we already had that yeah it’s it’s one of those features that it is truly Bonkers it didn’t have already and there are a million apps out there that are free and great for window tiling and we’ll do it better than seoa I’m sure uh so go use those I use one called rectangle it’s very good highly that’s a good name for an app it is it’s very it’s very good and it’s free and it’s wonderful and everybody should use it uh but this it’s yeah there’s so many things in here that are just like apple sort of slowly checking off boxes of like features it’s insane that have not been here for a decade yeah and that’s fine take it a lot of people have asked me uh how to feel I guess I don’t how describe this about Safari and the fact that it has AI summaries built into it now which is I know you two love Arc but a lot of people have feelings about Arc doing that in different ways feelings about perplexity doing that in different ways this one feels much more innocuous because you’re browsing the web and it is loading the web pages I mean I have it turned off in Arc I always forget that it’s it’s there you just like Arc yeah just love art but that that distinction you made I think is actually really important and is the whole thing right like Apple’s way of doing this is you go to a web page and then AI can do things to that web page yeah uh and like a bunch of it is really clever right it’s like there if you’re looking for important information on a web page it will help you surface it like if you ever go to like a restaurant website and you look for the phone number impossible and this is like it will just find you the phone number like that’s good but you’re already on the website right and so now now all you’re doing is you’re solving for awful web design which I’m fully in favor of AI should destroy bad web design uh but it it flips the equation of the thing like it’s not going to the web page and then returning information on my behalf I am going to the web page and then asking it for information to be clear we have not used this to any great extent like no we’ve seen some demos we people have the private betas and they’re publishing about it so like people are talking about it um but I think there’s going to be a lot of back and forth between hey this web browser is now doing a lot of summary you have a big partner with open AI which not everyone is so happy with disclosure our company has a Content deal with opening eye um cool uh I don’t know if we have one with anyone else um but like I I think a lot of a lot of the Safari work one point the person who presenting Safari was like if you haven’t used it you should try it it got pretty good yeah it’s like oh boy you need to get this back you got to get this back on track so they’re adding some features to it because as David has been covering an installer like browser Wars are back there’s like a bunch of very interesting browsers because of AI features and so I think Apple needs to capture some of that yeah and the like the reader mode updates that it got was cool reader’s another one that it’s like nobody’s mad at reader mode even though it strips everything out because you have to load the web page you it’s that’s just the whole thing and the there’s now the what’s it called they call it the viewer mode where it’ll just pop up a video that’s on the page if you want watch the video and give you like native picture and picture and viewing control awesome love it Mak bad it’s better unbelievable huge fan make me go to the website right the problem with all the other browser is like you’ll stop browsing the web right and then there’s no more incentive to make web and I think Apple’s trying to walk the line here yeah yeah but I’m I’m again yeah there’s a lot of questions but I’m kind of in favor is does anyone sitting here use Safari with any regularity I I do do you like on purpose yeah for for until I switched to Arc I would do like Edge as my work browser and Safari was my personal browser I tried to keep the work separate so what I’ve learned about you in this podcast so far is you are a devoted Mac User who loves Outlook and Edge make better mail and uh web browsers use other devices yeah if you heard about these AI PCS you love being watched by big corporations dude you were also on this podcast not long ago being like Oh what Apple wants to do is build a surface you could just have one I know but I don’t want it I I want I want Apple to do what I wanted to you just want to Ugg up your iPhone this I’m this like people in America are so confused about competition yeah they’re like I’ll just yell at Apple until it makes me the product I want I won’t just buy the product that exists exactly already is the thing I want that’s that’s why I’m in the job I’m in so I can yell everywhere uh can we spend two seconds talking about gaming and then talk about passwords literally two seconds okay Apple announced a bunch ofam I just want to announce they they’re like you can now play death stranding on the Mac that came came out in 2019 Assassin’s Creed game one that is coming out that’s true but another one came out in 2019 and then the big finale was control now with r tracing control was the game of the year in like 2017 it yeah control is a game that everybody just uses to show off R tracing because it has really good rage tracing like yeah that’s kind of why it exists in most people’s computers now controlls at the point where it’s like you open the PlayStation Store on the right day it’s like do you just want control yeah like you should have it’s like really good you know like you should try it out but the Ubisoft stuff was interesting it did feel like apple is trying to kind of Brute Force its way back into the gaming conversation I mean it’s been doing it for the last three or four years but uh having the Ubisoft like guy on stage having the new games come out on the iPad on the Mac like day and dat that that’s that’s not nothing wait I got this wrong control is a game of the year contender in 201 the Assassin’s Creed game came out in 2017 I’m sorry apologies to everyone yeah it’s they’re all old but also this I was a different person this was before the pandemic like it’s pre was old I used to I was breathing on people every day this does continue uh Assassin’s Creed’s perfect streak of being available on every platform invented by any computer and you’re like can I stab someone on this computer Ubisoft is there they’re like yes in a little friend Jackson the new one is in feudal Japan all right that’s that’s too much game mode Talk um let’s talk about watch OS briefly uh this is the one I am perhaps least qualified to talk about because I just went in and turned off all of the fitness notifications on my app watch because they were making me sad like do you want to stand up and I was like no I’m on a call leave me alone Apple but there’s like if you’re a fitness person and Alison you’re wearing a watch and seem like a fitness person there’s a lot of new stuff here this thing is like a super in health and fitness device now it’s getting serious I I will say and we’ll give this shout out for our colleague V song that you can now finally tell Apple you’re taking a rest day and or like you’re sick you’re not going to go do your little jog or whatevered yeah probably I like I could feel it I could feel her you know energy he was typing in our slack when this got launched and was typing in all caps so fast she was just making thousands of typos yeah P Joy but yeah so there’s you can now take rest days you can also change your goals day to day throughout the week which I think is very clever uh there’s a new vitals app that’ll track new stuff on your body if I explain it more than that I will immediately sound as dumb as I am about all this uh you can rate like the effort of a workout it’s basically like this is all just Health inputs and outputs right that is what this device is now it felt like they added a bunch of stuff that other folks have been doing like Aura ring has been doing it Garmin has been doing it espe really the health stuff like Ora has been all over that and I was like oh we we could we’ve got all those sensors we’ve in fact got better sensors we could probably do that and Apple has just been really weird about it before now and well they’ve been in a pretty healthy lawsuit the company about probably why but so so it’s it’s nice to see that yeah you’ll be able the rest days is the big one though I think I think that was what the one like I was seeing on threads even everybody was just like yeah that was the one the people last that forever yeah CU yeah sometimes you feel like garbage and your watch is like you haven’t moved at all today you piece of yeah and you’re like cuz I feel like garbage thanks Mom like leave me alone and it seems to get like meaner and meaner as time goes on like if you get to like day three of not closing all your rings your watch is just so disappointed in you it’s like you get yeah you get the message it’s like you didn’t close any rings yesterday like let’s just try for one today I’m like I’m sorry what’s the bare minimum you can give me if you did anything today and I’m like didn’t even have my watch on yesterday leave me alone stand ring we’re going to go for stand ring once an hour yeah just stand up I’m going to put my goal to three hours today let’s go Apple it’s good um all right let’s burn through these last ones then we can take a break uh airpods we talked a little bit about the airpods nod headshake nod very good uh unbelievably unconvinced that that works but if it does very excited uh there are a lot of people out there who uh are trying to make that stuff work turns out you move your head a lot I don’t know if you’ve noticed but like in just being a person in the world you move ahead your head a lot and so figuring those gestures out I hope it’s the same way like when you talk to your computer you use a voice you like your computer voice I hope you have to like have a computer head just like walking down the street doing these really dramatic head nods that would be ideal which is definitely better than talking to yourself yeah not not weird to just constantly be walking cases you’ll probably get the car to yourself on the subway I was walking on the street in Philadelphia the other day uh and a woman Rod by on her bike and she just goes hey Siri really loud with her airpods in and I was like literally St like a lot of people stopped because that was just a weird thing to happen and I said out loud to the person I was walking with I’ve never seen anyone do that in the wild before and like that was special and that we had like everyone’s like the whole street had a moment because she was like I’m gonna talk to Siri while I’m just biking it’s hard to do in public because you’re like I’m always like hey Siri how are you know she you gota she just Philly man with a whole chest a whole I love that FL Philly that’s where that’s where you can just do it yeah there are some towns in America where you can just address Voice Assistant the airpods pros they’re getting better like phone calls to microphon voice isolation yeah which is a feature that has existed for a long time and is deeply buried in settings on all of your devices this is like a thing you can do on phone calls now and it makes you sound so much better and it has always driven me crazy that Apple doesn’t just turn it on by default but it’s a thing that exists on the Mac it’s a thing that exists on the iPhone but you have to turn it on for every single call like in the middle of the call and that’s very stupid and so the fact that it’s just on now there’s also the personalized spatial audio which you know nei’s favorite feature so that everyone can sneak up on you during your phone calls yeah that’s what you want uh but no yeah I’m I’m into it the airpods they did it yeah they’re still airpods no more Air airpods Maxes I really thought that we were going to get airpods today either it was going to be a hom*od or new airpods Maxes and they were going to like make a whole series story out of it nothing whatever in thought was that they were gonna add Mac OS to the iPod and the airpods would be the focus of all the a efforts all of you people were disappointed we got a calculator and it was sick uh tvos we have covered several times we’ll just move on from there uh it’ll now that we’re getting a new Seas 219 projector support to tvos okay this is the next hour of the vers I’m excited about this uh to speaking of the next hour of the vergecast vision OS I will not name names uh a friend of ours friend of the show came up to us and they’re like so they’re just giving up in the Vision Pro and they they this person looked bereft bereft that’s sad uh and I was like no I think they just they announced it four months ago I don’t think they had anything left in the tank and like they’re giving up on it Wes Davis um was going through all the updates and he’s like oh what they didn’t say on stage was that they are fixing a ton of bugs and issues he’s had with it cuz he’s like the one PE person on he loves it God bless he’s always like you want to FaceTime I’m like absolutely not put that in the fire but uh but yeah so he apparently there’s doing a bunch of updates to it but they just didn’t talk about any of that they did not because I think you have to know what is broken about the Vision Pro in order to appreciate the fixes yeah and most people don’t know anything about the Vision Pro they’re like we’re not spending David is fond of reminding us it cost $3,500 7 out of 10 baby here we uh I I stand by my review now more than ever actually not the score but the review no I think it’s right and I think we we have we have continued to find what is that it’s better out here than in there um but they did add they’re adding more immersive videos they’re going to release more stuff they’re releasing in more countries which actually got a huge cheer that expands the market um Canon’s making a special lens just for the R9 which Alis I’m curious to have a read on this oh my God I totally like blanked that out it looked like wasn’t there a moment where some company was making a 3D lens for the camera yeah like Fujifilm I think did the like you know when 3D was going to be the next thing they’re like here’s a camera lens that will shoot 3D photos for you I was like we’re doing it again yeah I can’t tell if the the EOS R9 it was specifically the camera they called out has a sensor or a processing system that can take the Split Image right because what they’re doing is they’re making a right and left image and then combining it somewhere so I’m wondering if the camera has some setting but the Canon is making a lens for One camera it’s not just a Canon lens like you would expect it’s for this one camera so now you can shoot apple immersive with this one camera is it the R9 or the R7 was it the r s ven says it was R seven Jen’s already bought the lens no oh my gosh live fact checking maybe I just typed it wrong in live log no I’m uh yeah again I would say this is indicative of how important this actually to the world but I think this is really wild because there’s not enough content for this headset right so that they spent a lot of time talking about just like how they’re building out the content pipelines for the Canon EOS R7 thank you no it’s true it’s very clear that Apple thinks content is the thing yeah uh and they they announced like new environments new ways to look at the spatial photos like new new tools for showing this stuff it’s very obvious to me that the two things they’re seeing people do in this are use it as a monitor which is why they announced the new Ultra wide monitor which looked awesome I’m confident will not look like that in actual use but the idea of having one wild giant like wall-sized monitor in front of you kicks ass and I want it very I am very excited to see if that means Mac OS will now support Ultra wides curved Ultra wides more right now if you get one of the crazy Samsungs they just like don’t work very well right it would be hysterical buit only works with the Vision Pro it would be perfectly unbrand if you could get a giant curved ultrawide in the $35 headset but that same resolution can not be displayed on an actual monitor beautiful yeah we’ll see but I people did Shear for that it is the thing they’re using it for um but yeah I I I think that just means they’re adding more display resolutions to the Mac which would be good because there’s a class of honors you really can’t use very well with mac right now yeah well and with that that’s the last we’re going to hear of the Vision Pro for a pretty long time I think wait can I in my continuing Quest describe the what is a photo apocalypse uh they added a feature right now you can shoot spatial a right now you can shoot spatial video and photos with your iPhone I don’t think you should do it because actually really reduces the quality of especially in low light so the files are monstrous yeah and you can only look at them in headset yeah just like not worth it right now but uh they are adding a feature where it can spatialize your regular photos o which means it is creating a bunch of synthetic data for your eyes to look at out of one photo y so youve got a left eye vision and it’s going to make a right eye or you’ve got a right eye or whatever it’s doing it’s just going to create a little bit of a depth map and it’s going to just synthesize some information that super wasn’t there in the photo is this the greatest what is a photo crime no it is not is it super weird that we’re all just racing headlong into the future synthetic imagery and being like that’s fun yeah but that’s stuff they’ve been doing on like TVs for ages right when they do the auto upscaling and stuff isn’t that the same thing where they’re just adding pixels where well no so Auto upscaling is you know you take like a a 720 image and you just like make it bigger yeah and you get a bunch of AI stuff in there this is and like that’s still right you’re right that that’s happening but you’re adding pixels like in a 2d plane yeah this is they’re going to add a 3D image so you’re going to get another angle from like if assume the picture again as your left eye you’re going to get another angle on the same image and you’re going to see like a little bit of the side of someone’s head I cannot wait to look at a little bit of the side of Allison’s head but an AI Allison’s head right yeah you’re just G to have like four ears yeah yeah it’ll be great I’m just say it’s just like one of those things where you’re like oh huh they’re just doing that they’re goingon to totally synthesize another image for you to look at to create a 3d effect that image never existed NOP it it it did not happen you did not capture it this computer is just going to confidently tell you this is what your other eye would have seen and you’re going be like huh that’s weird it’s a weird thing that’s happening I will say I know people Liam is always on me for endlessly going on about what is a photo I ruthlessly use the generative eracer in my room the other day to take people out of the background of a photo of my daughter I as conflicted as you are I am but a man okay how did it make you feel huh do you do you look at that photo differently now awesome I do look at the photo differently cuz I know what I did but but I don’t know that most people have a feeling of Shame when they’re done using light generative shame is a whole thing we’re not even they should Mark it as shame uh we’re about to by the way have a big story Jess weather is working on it um Regular photographers are now running into the reality that any use of AI tools appends a watermark which then Instagram will just like say made with AI and people have real feelings about that label it’s the virgous Frid story that exists but Jess is working yeah yeah all right well that’s all the platforms uh there’s a lot we didn’t get to I suspect we will talk a lot more about this both like on Friday and for the rest of our lives uh but it was a lot like it was a big it was a lot was a big day uh and I think in it was a funny one cuz in another world just that run of platforms would have been a 2hour that’s right at the end of it I was like are they done yeah and as it was they just blew through it like I think one of the things we’re going to see over the next few days is because the developer betas are out we’re going to learn about so many things that didn’t even come up or get mentioned they’re not in blog post they weren’t on the bentos like there’s a lot of stuff in these platforms BOS are getting surprisingly less dense yeah they’re very sparing now I think Apple should repack those with information they’re I think just like a plain text screen yeah just full change log that’s it we should we should take a break you don’t want to talk about games more no I don’t want to play Assassin’s Creed on any of my Apple devices leave me alone about all right we’ll be right back all right we’re back welcome back to our show we’re ending with a lightning round unsponsored sponsored by the ESR uh by the way I would like to thank the very many people who have sent me photos of the Sony UL speakers in the wild uh one person was like I was in best bu I had to go look at for myself amazing uh hit the button enter the UL era they have not sponsored lighting I’m just giving this away but it’s lighting around we’re going to do something special here to end uh we’re going to go around we’re going to say what our two favorite features of wwec were and these are like these are like features we will use like features we will use okay and frustratingly we picked them before the show yeah where we all took stands against one another’s opinions couldn’t change it not allowed we’re not allowed to change it as we came back in from break gr let’s begin with you I’m very worried about your choices yeah mine um you and HR are probably gonna be very worried because jimoji and image playground are at the top of my list oh Lord um I am have no artistic ability in the ability to make a horse with 12 butts just sounds weird I want to see what happens it’s a really interesting no artistic ability and terrible person it’s like a really fascinating combination but some but also wildly creative yeah like if you were like I have no artistic ability I’m a bad person but I couldn’t imagine a horse with 12 butts like fine go about your day is like I got ideas I I want to see I want to see what happens so I’m I’m super excited about that uh we’ll see how long I’m allowed to be excited about it before Apple just shuts me off shut you down at the server level like we got the kill switch and iOS fire doing as I log in they’re like nope that’s not for you execute but it’s going to be sick and then my other one I’ve talked about already is the the ugly dark mode apps crayons oh my God you’ve seen that my SL now you know I just I want everything I want all of my devices when I turn them on for you to go again why don’t you use Windows and Android which from the like the base levels of the operating system are designed to be this ugly it’s too easy oh I see you’re not a hacker if you’re not hacking by using the system level theming controls into the operating system it feels like hacking when it’s on iOS all right the CR everybody David what are you uh my two I I changed it because I want to talk about two things yeah but who can remember what my last one was now it’s it’s been too long rules I changed mid show not during the break so it was fine I changed it while you were talking about something or other uh game mode yeah probably yeah you were like oh Assassin’s Creed and I just started typing uh you know they shot control in 2017 my first one is uh weirdly just like a throwi in at the end of wwc which I actually thought was very exciting it’s transcription and AI summarization in The Voice Memos app and also the phone app and also the phone app yeah so exciting which is like this is the kind of thing that like if you’re a reporter is life-changing and if you’re a real person is just like sort of whatever but for me like I spend a lot of time talking into things and being talked at on those same things and having a decent recorder is amazing like you use the pixel recorder Alison I know because that is like a magical little piece of software at all times and this feels like it might do the same thing and I’m very excited about that fact uh so that’s awesome also maybe the thing that AI is the most consistently good at is transcription and summarization so like sold love it I’ll take it uh the other one is all of the organization stuff in mail which I am more excited about as time goes on because Nia is making a face at me which is fair just M stream is I’m just I’m like this man has to run installer and he has to pretend all software is interesting so no it’s that all email apps for iPhone are bad yeah which is just a fact of the world solved problem on the Mac M stream is excellent everybody shoes M stream love it to death uh there are no good email apps for the iPhone and before you hear this or see this and send me one don’t I’ve tried it it sucks they’re all bad uh but this thing Apple did which is basically just launch Gmail they updat tab like the whole thing yeah they they do the categorization they’re doing some uh AI summarization you can use the tools to rewrite your emails like we were talking about earlier uh I’m going to go back to using Apple mail again because it is like useful the problem with Apple Mail has always been that search sucks which I assume is still the case and it doesn’t have the split inboxes in gmail which I’ve actually now come to rely on they’re not very good but they’re better than just dumping everything into one inbox uh and at least when I go to Promotions it’s like mostly stuff I don’t want and when I go to updates it’s like mostly newsletters and receipts again not perfect but pretty good and if Apple can do that stuff even that well it immediately becomes the best email app on the iPhone like by a mile and so I’m cautiously optimistic I just the Gmail app is so bad I want to believe for you it’s so it’s not good yeah that’s why you got to use Outlook no can I tell you what sucks about Outlook this well a everything B it’s very slow but C when you open an email the archive button which is the only button that matters on an email app is all the way at the top right of the screen where is completely unreachable no matter how you hold your phone ridiculous you archive them do you just leave them oh you’re oh crap I’m discovering I hate you in this episode oh no don’t don’t worry about my little M don’t worry about don’t you don’t it’s fine you read it then Mark it as unread for the chaos and then go about your business like sometimes I’ll be like oh that’s spam I’ll leave it unread so I one day no one oh that hurts my soul that’s way to do it second the Gmail app has actually solved this by way of a bug that is still not fixed which is sometimes when you open an email from the notification on the Gmail at Pros it just deletes the email I’ve noticed this it’s just like how do you get here how did how did you arrive at this state Google I mean all that AI like I bet what you wanted to do was immediately delete this email that you actually chose to take an action on the action was delete and that’s how I hit inbox zero congratulations it’s really exciting yeah reading it is not important to getting to inbox zero the robot summarize the email I can’t believe you picked mail I honestly the more I think about it the more excited I am about it but also the thing where you can now Group by sender so I’m like the one time you go to a restaurant and then they send you an email every day for the rest of your life going and clicking the unscribe button too much work doing it in Gmail doesn’t work that’s just a lie that they tell you uh but now you can group them and just delete them all once I I like that I’m excited I’m excited for their the samei idea everyone else has which is like you’re planning a trip all the emails from your trip are going to be a little D of trip emails love it great I’m super excited for you in mail thank you it’s going to be an awesome like six days and then somebody will update their app again and I’ll be like maybe they fixed it they didn’t but I will try it again you’ve got a problem and it’s fine because it keeps you writing I do it for work now Alison what that’s I’m saying yeah all right what are yours Alison uh mine are messaging related um I am because I Tesla Love Android phones I’m usually the person on Android in the group chat um so do you turn iMessage on when you test an iPhone and then off when you stop does it ruin your life every time you do that kind of like possibly I have missed out on friendships you know things happening I don’t know um when you de enroll from from iMessage you miss messages like for days it’s insane I think there’s people I just don’t talk to anymore cuz they probably try to message me no I do this and I do it with RCS so like yeah RCS and iMessage is gonna yeah fix everything for me I feel really good about man that’s even more optimistic than David picking mail this well you can send high resolution photos now it’s the photos cuz like right now when in the group chat we’re sharing photos over our kids doing cute things and I have to be like I’m sorry I’m screwing up the the high you know the quality of the images here can you just send them to my husband or can we put them in a go there’s so many Google photos albums it’s like oh God how are you on any group chats inex I love the idea of everybody sending photos back and forth and then you just sending Google photos links it’s oh my God yeah check out my cool photos you have really good friends I know they are so patient with those are but you know what there was one Android guy and he just switched to iPhone too I was like now it’s just me yeah so that’s it RCS is going to fix everything for me I feel good about it that is a good one yeah um and scheduling messages yes that’s a CL one message only I’m going to schedule so many messages for like 7 minutes from now just so it’s not like immediately thirsty but like within 10 is too much God right seven minutes for hour it fixes the like oh you just text me and I’m going to text you right back but that like seems weird and then I’m going to forget about it and then never text you back those are the only two options that exist right I’m honestly I’m so glad you both just said that because this is my main problem as a person I will your message and if I respond if I am in the right head space to respond to it I’m very responsive I’m ready but if I do the thing where I put my phone down we’re done it’s I’m never ever getting back to it and I will just feel an increasing sense of guilt like I could name you right now off the top of my head 15 people I owe text messages to who are never getting text messages from do you do you read them name them now this will be the greatest Tik to in history name the 15 people you know that you are supposed to Tex circ*mstances but all of them know who they are which is the beauty of it uh and I’m just it’s seven minutes they should just add it as a default button send in seven minutes yeah right yeah send but be cool be cool about it chill yeah this is like the swingers button uh all right it’s I can’t believe I picked hey hey Nei what what are yours what are your picks I picked one that I I I stand by uhhuh which is phone mirror phone mirroring Y and remote iOS access for uh grandparent tech support game changers game changers all the way around and that’s it those are two you had one more what was it at the time I did not know what we were picking I thought we were just picking some cool features I did not know that I would create false conflict with David in the iPad segment and I picked the calculator okayi I would like you I would like you to do the following I would like you to right now make the case that the calculator app is the missing thing on the iPad and the iPad is now perfect and complete I would like you to make that case right now the problem with the iPad for the past 13 years has been its inability to do simple mathematics I think as we’ve all known uh and now you can that was it I do want to say quickly just to pour one out for the app called solver uh which is an awesome very cool very clever app where you can just like type out the math you’re trying to do just like the bill is $65 there’s four of us how much does everybody owe with a 20% tip and it just answers your math questions like that Apple just full short locked that app today no cuz you would have to get out your iPad and start writing with a pencil at dinner and I just don’t I don’t think that’s what’s happening here like oh do you want to sign the check and you’re like not yet hold on I’ve got a draw dinner how how much of the apps did you have uh I agree that they took a lot of those ideas but yeah I don’t I think solver fun because it’s an an iPhone app right yeah yeah it’s very good on the iPhone it’s unbelievable they’re not adding any of these calculator features to the iPhone it’s like the iPhone and the iPad will never have the same calculator experience the The Epiphany that I had during the live blog today was that uh everybody desperately wants the iPad to become a Mac and what it actually is is an iPhone with a stylus yes and to the ENT that that changes what you can do on it apple is like pushing really hard on that idea that like because there’s a stylist you can do new things that’s that’s the whole bent of the iPad right now when we get the folding phone it’s going to be sick when it folds yeah it it may well be but it is like it is further and further away from being a Mac all the time and then you can use your folding iPad on your computer uh because it will do iPhone mirroring oh my and then you plug in Your Vision Pro and you get a giant ass monitor bringing it all together we fixed it I think I’ve never been more depressed about computers after that entire sequence what I I actually think uh we saw a lot from Apple today which indicates this company can actually have new ideas which is sort of not been the case for a minute right like they’re like we added theming to iOS for cray great thank you um stuff that other platforms had forever even though all these AI features are kind of the same like everybody else they’ve integrated them into the operating system in better ways they have a better story to tell like here’s why it’s useful as opposed to like here’s just the raw amount of compute that we can throw at a problem which is basically how Google handles things but I come back to this thing about the iPad and it’s like they still don’t know why they make this thing they just don’t know yeah it gets increasingly cool without Ever Getting yeah more itself in yeah I think they make it because they sell them yeah and that’s kind of and it’s like they’re they need to Kickstart that somehow or do they because they sell them that’s true I think that my bold prediction here is the iPhone thing is heading towards a touchcreen on a Mac you put the iPhone display on a Mac there’s but one thing people are going to as to start doing with it and start touching it swipe yeah I just want to swipe Tik Tok in a tiny window on my Mac I just want to respond to a Google notification directly on a mirrored iPhone window and immediately delete that message for no reason yeah future all right is that it is that our show that’s it since six hours long we we have more we’re gonna go through all the betas that we’re seeing y we’ll run through additional features on Friday what say today’s Monday today’s Monday for yeah for Friday show we’re going to do sort of a cleanup because like I said there’s been a ton of new stuff that we’ve seen if people have been installing the betas we have a lot more white paper reading to do we’re so we’re going to do a like everything we didn’t talk about thing on Friday show so there is stuff we didn’t talk about if you work at another company don’t make any news yeah oh my God please honestly I’m begging turn it off we have to talk about the stupid Xbox and we have to talk about this so the show is done no more news this week all right that’s it thank you for listening thank you Alison for joining us we’ll be back on Friday with uh more of this which you love on all the platforms you love the most well that’s it that’s where CH and that’s it for the Verge cast this week hey we’d love to hear from you give us a call at 866 Verge one1 the vergecast is a production of The Verge and VOX media podcast Network our show is produced by Andrew Marino and Liam James that’s it we’ll see you next week [Music]